HT-b cam - improved version

[Sasa]

Digging up the old thread here to see what others have to say about the Newest b Cam...

I'll begin: it's Noisy! Either that our I did a poor job at setting my Clearances!? Anyone find the same?
The Torque Curve is...Interesting. I'm not sure what to make of it but it doesn't seem Linear. What I'm trying to communicate is that the power doesn't come on in a predicted manner, like starting in at 2500rmp then ramping up all the way to...whatever, say 6500. IT SEEMS TO ME that the power comes on, then dissipates, then comes on again. Sometimes if I'm in a higher gear then this seems to throw in more variables. (Still not a good explanation of what I'm feeling.) Then Sometimes it behaves just as I would think it should?? Weird. Nothing TOO Bizarre, just not the Linear response I've felt in the past. Now I'm Really Curious as to how our MAP is responding to this newest Cam. I've got a feeling that if put on a Dyno we could use the Data to work out something special! Heck, it's already Special, so, mo better!!
Related:
I was in the position to use my buddies BS3 Himalayan for a few days last week while I found the time to R&R my cylinder Head with 6mm HeliCoils. (Did a bunch of other work to it to that various 'mechanics' around here had screwed up. They even stole my Iridium Plug!) The Ride (YSS), The Power, the Over-all experience of riding my bike is SO Different, So Good now, that all of these difficult days of working out the kinks has Really paid off. I'm pretty close to calling the bike World Class! (especially taking into account it's humble origin).

BTW I replaced my Plug with a NKG CR9EIX, which is 1 or 2 points Colder than the typical 7 or 8 Series. My bike is running cooler, for sure as it's 41c now and I can for sure tell, but also I haven't change a thing and the bike is starting with just a touch of the starter, no throttle, and idles perfectly! That's a first! I'll put in a hotter plug when cooler weather comes around again...
Bob

Bob,

I suspect some of the development done so far has gone out the window with the new HT-C. More duration (seems from the picture) changes engine behavior.

Interestingly enough the Kent behaves similar to HT-B a RPMs up to 5000 then it diverges. In fact the map that we have made for it is pretty similar up to that range, then it needs more fuel to compensate for better breathing and that shows off, as the bike is eager to rev up!

So, as Peter suggested, the only way to tune it properly is on a dyno with several "partialized" throttle run, say 14% / 30% / 50% and 70%, beside the normal 100% run.

This is what we've been doing, throughout several session, with Peter to come up with V6.

But even so, that map would be optimal for your bike, not necessarily for all bike using a HT-C cam, since your build is rather extreme and I don't think I could scale back the values to suit less modded bike.

It still remain to be seen.

 

[Dool]

Digging up the old thread here to see what others have to say about the Newest b Cam...

I'll begin: it's Noisy! Either that our I did a poor job at setting my Clearances!? Anyone find the same?
The Torque Curve is...Interesting. I'm not sure what to make of it but it doesn't seem Linear. What I'm trying to communicate is that the power doesn't come on in a predicted manner, like starting in at 2500rmp then ramping up all the way to...whatever, say 6500. IT SEEMS TO ME that the power comes on, then dissipates, then comes on again. Sometimes if I'm in a higher gear then this seems to throw in more variables. (Still not a good explanation of what I'm feeling.) Then Sometimes it behaves just as I would think it should?? Weird. Nothing TOO Bizarre, just not the Linear response I've felt in the past. Now I'm Really Curious as to how our MAP is responding to this newest Cam. I've got a feeling that if put on a Dyno we could use the Data to work out something special! Heck, it's already Special, so, mo better!!
Related:
I was in the position to use my buddies BS3 Himalayan for a few days last week while I found the time to R&R my cylinder Head with 6mm HeliCoils. (Did a bunch of other work to it to that various 'mechanics' around here had screwed up. They even stole my Iridium Plug!) The Ride (YSS), The Power, the Over-all experience of riding my bike is SO Different, So Good now, that all of these difficult days of working out the kinks has Really paid off. I'm pretty close to calling the bike World Class! (especially taking into account it's humble origin).

BTW I replaced my Plug with a NKG CR9EIX, which is 1 or 2 points Colder than the typical 7 or 8 Series. My bike is running cooler, for sure as it's 41c now and I can for sure tell, but also I haven't change a thing and the bike is starting with just a touch of the starter, no throttle, and idles perfectly! That's a first! I'll put in a hotter plug when cooler weather comes around again...
Bob

Mine is not Noisy, performance is down because I have used a stock Head and Header pipe but it runs great.
I think yours just needs more fuel in the Mid-range, when you get a chance add 3% to one map take 1.5% off another, see if that helps.

About Spark plugs, They are not actually heat dependent, the heat range refers to how quick they dissipate their heat, it's a toss-up between getting hot enough to keep clean and not burn to death, like having a Shave with a Cigarette lighter Maybe Not!

 

[RCruiser]

Guys I've just returned to Delhi from another coffee expedition, and ready to once again do some projects on the bike, so some guidance would be appreciated.

Sasa, what you said Regarding 'Peters Map (V-6), should I get a copy of this on my bike before anything else?

Being that it's pretty Hot again in Delhi I don't feel much like getting the bike Dyno'd until it cools down some, so maybe in July/Aug during Monsoon, or later on in December. I've found that the bike is running Hotter than I stated earlier so Peters suggestion that it needs more fuel is probably correct. (Can't wait for my new Fan to cool off the oil which should arrive soon).

Next I'll be doing the ABS removal. Sasa has reported that it solves the mushy front brake feel, which I don't have bc of my HD Caliper, but I'm hoping that it improves the inappropriate snatchiness of the Rear Brake while freeing up some space for my new Starter Relay.
Bob

 

[Sasa]

@RCruiser which map r u running now?

I mean both file and specific map.

If I remember correctly I sent you the V6, no need to use Peter map, your was already optimized with your build in mind!

However, since you’re now running ht-c, which seems to have more duration, I think you should add some fuel to compensate.

I would start with +2% in each cell of each INJ VE table!

 

[RCruiser]

@RCruiser which map r u running now?

I mean both file and specific map.

If I remember correctly I sent you the V6, no need to use Peter map, your was already optimized with your build in mind!

However, since you’re now running ht-c, which seems to have more duration, I think you should add some fuel to compensate.

I would start with +2% in each cell of each INJ VE table!

Hey Sasa.
My bad, I spoke 1st, and thought 2nd...
I am using Map V6 SE (Special Edition for Bob) running on T3.
I'll follow your suggestion regarding the 2% increase in fuel. FWIW when I replaced my Plug last time it was burning Very Clean, Brown not White clean, which made me feel that it was pretty good. It's hotter now which will produce a Lean Condition, and making a fair amount of Popping on Deceleration, which I've forgotten what that indicates but it wasn't prevalent earlier and in cooler weather.
Roberto

 

[Sasa]

Hey Sasa.
My bad, I spoke 1st, and thought 2nd...
I am using Map V6 SE (Special Edition for Bob) running on T3.
I'll follow your suggestion regarding the 2% increase in fuel. FWIW when I replaced my Plug last time it was burning Very Clean, Brown not White clean, which made me feel that it was pretty good. It's hotter now which will produce a Lean Condition, and making a fair amount of Popping on Deceleration, which I've forgotten what that indicates but it wasn't prevalent earlier and in cooler weather.
Roberto

Hello Bob,

before adding fuel try first map1 and see if goes better.
Map1 is both a little richer and with less timing, so the engine should run already cooler.

Temperature increase should actually make your mixture richer, not leaner, since higher temperatures lead to decrease in air density!

Anyhow you replaced the plug BEFORE installing the new cam (HT-C), right?

That meant that probably that map was very good for HT-B, but probably HT-C requires a different treatment!

Popping might be related to the new cam that let's in far more air than before (hence the leaner mixture and the popping) not necessarily temperature.

 

[RCruiser]

Opp's you're correct on the Temp/Fuel rational Sasa, I got it backwards (been too long since messing with this stuff!)
Let's see how Map 1 does before commenting further (and showing what a dunce I am!!).
Boberto

 

[Dool]

Pst, Bob, I recon Sasa made it do pops and farts, he adjusts things just saying.

 

[Sbinf74]

I return to this topic because until now I was using a ONX 8.2-b camshaft which I believe is the HT-b equivalent, this cam offered me good performance but I had significantly increased the noise of the tappets. So, looking for something quieter, I tried a KENT stage2. Just looking at it, the different shape of the cams is evident, compared to the original and the ONX, the ramps to reach the maximum opening are not straight but have a curved profile. Since I was intrigued by the different shape of the cams, I decided to use a divider and comparator to detect the phases. The readings were taken every 5 degrees of the cam (10 degrees on the crankshaft) and the graph highlights how much the KENT cam differs from the original and from the ONX, it has a greater opening of 7/10 mm. With this new cam the engine is silent again and in any case you cannot hear the noise of the tappets while driving. The camshaft also has noticeable boost from 4000 to over 6800 rpm (I didn't go any further but the camshaft still pushes!)

ONX CAM

ONX vs KENT (Bottom)

exhaust SX Intake DX
red/blu:kent
yellow/sky-blu:ONX
green/grayriginal

 

[Dool]

Not much after 7500rpm, I have found anyway

 

[Dool]

16. November 2021, 22:43

Dool introduced the new HT-b version of our cam. There was some confusion (in the dyno-charts thread) because he failed to make it clear that this indeed is a different cam he is now testing (on his second "stock" Hima).

The result seems much better than the TEC and we now seem to have what we aimed at in the beginning, a real "performance" cam. As of Dool there will be a dyno with the 477 as well, some time in December it seems.

Have a look at the dyno chart (and remember, this is the result not just of the cam but of the combined mods outlined at the bottom of the chart - which component did which enhancement can at this point only be guessed):

This is the first post, a 24.5 percent increase, not bad

Now the increase is almost double that at 48 point something.
How?